Let’s talk Cancel Culture (Part 2)
With artist Jonathan Lim (@whereartjon)
Jon was party to a recent incident of “cancel culture”. Over dinner last week we defined talking points for this story: reacting to backlash, cancel culture, how-to healthy discussions. We addressed his involvement in said-incident only as context for the present and to suggest the future.
As our chat covers broad philosophy, I hope you keep in mind “He said…” can be different from “He meant…”
Jon
M: How’re you feeling, professionally?
J: Fearful; moving forward my livelihood is quite heavily dependent on goodwill and forgiveness, less so on my work ethic or ability although of course those are always important.
10 years later someone could dig out what I said last month, and I stand to lose everything I might’ve gained in-between.
M: What was your Instagram inbox like after you posted those IG stories?
J: People responded to their understanding of what I said. It wasn’t pleasant, but I’m thankful some were willing to engage in conversation. Numerous people asked for clarification, and right after I provided it, some of these same people then asked why I was being so vindictive.
I mean, I get how this is hypocritical of me to say, but I think (generally speaking) people should engage in and withdraw from conversations respectfully.
M: What’ve you learnt?
J: The things I say/do don’t just affect me, they affect the people who associate with me. Some people tried to reach for justice by condemning my associates. If I knew that then, things might have been different.
People can be hurt by misinterpretations of what I say. “If I took down a majority cult, I can [certainly] take down a minority cult.” Some people thought I was threatening genocide.
In the media, what I think and how I feel — or even what is logical — is less important than how the public perceives it. There are things I will only express in private conversation but not publicly.
(Note: This is a huge driver of why this story reads the way it does.)
M: The lessons you learnt were because of the fallout and not what you did specifically. Do you get how people could interpret that you’re reflecting “selfishly”?
J: I like to be honest when answering questions. I know it’s not a popular nor “correct” thing to say, but I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong per se to prioritise my friends.
M: You mentioned you take full responsibility. Who decides that responsibility?
J: The most clear-cut one is in the eyes of the law. Social, ethical responsibility is nebulous; subjective. Some say I deserve anything, everything that happens after the fact. I don’t know.
M: You’ve not apologised since. Do you think your apologies are enough?
J: I listened to everyone who wanted to speak to me, I apologised for the harm and hurt caused, I tried to share what I learnt in hopes that others could learn secondhand and not make the same mistake. 3 exhibitions ended prematurely.
Who knows? Some say I should just let it rest; the more I apologise the less sincere it comes across. Others say I haven’t even apologised yet; I try to understand what they mean by that.
If someone genuinely thinks it’s fair to cancel every one of my shows for the rest of my life, what can I say?
M: What was the mistake you made?
J: Many have asked me that same question, and after I give a genuine response, they say I still have no idea what my real mistake was. I then say something like “I’m sorry I haven’t learnt anything; please tell me what it is that I should learn.” They reply with “it’s not my responsibility to educate you.” And I get where they’re coming from, but I also feel trapped.
M: The people who call something, someone wrong should substantiate their claims with facts?
J: Again, I know this isn’t a popular nor “correct” thing to say, but I think if they’re not prepared to substantiate or even just discuss their ideas, then maybe they shouldn’t be accusing anyone of anything.
Activism, discourse
M: I’ve heard the statement, “In today’s society, everyone’s a minority.” Do you agree?
J: Tricky question. Trigger-laden. We exist simultaneously on different lines. In our pledge we categorise them as race, language and religion, although of course that’s not all there is to it. Being a minority in one sphere might not necessarily mean you’re a minority in every sense.
M: What about “comparing” minority?
J: Some suffer more inequality than others, some issues are more urgent. If someone is starving, obviously we should prioritise feeding them. Beyond a certain level of urgency, I don’t think it’s healthy to compare suffering. And it is also possible to discuss and address multiple issues at a time. The implicit assumption that only one thing should be seen / heard / addressed at one time benefits no one.
Some people say you don’t get to feel a certain way because others have it worse. But suffering is not a competition.
M: Has it become a competition?
J: I don’t think anyone wants that or thinks it should become one, but sometimes we don’t realise what we’re doing. It can be dangerous to trivialise others’ suffering even if our own is clearly greater.
M: When does acknowledgement about circumstance become complaining, an excuse for failure?
J: The danger is when acknowledgment becomes blaming; when you start using the system or other people to excuse yourself for things clearly within your control.
M: You may think they have control over some things but they may disagree.
J: In such situations, everyone should remain open to listening to each other. Sometimes in the midst of hardship, outside perspective can be clearer than our own.
I’m a better person when I listen more than I speak.
Cancel culture
M: Let’s talk cancel culture.
J: People who do bad things shouldn’t go scott-free. The danger comes when the consequences demanded are disproportionate; for example, bloodshed for words that were spoken.
It’s dangerous to let one person decide; we all have our own blind spots. No one is entitled to everything they ask for just because they’re angry. In future they might ask for even more from someone who did far less.
In order for the perpetrator to learn and change, it’s important for even those who were hurt to find balance. Sometimes we get carried away doing the right thing, we end up doing the wrong thing.
We don’t know what we don’t know. If someone speaks genuinely out of a place of ignorance, maybe they should first be given a chance to learn, and true learning takes time.
If we cancel everyone who has ever done anything wrong, we’d cancel everyone. It creates a climate of fear and distrust, counterproductive to sustainable progress.
M: Is cancel culture niche or mainstream?
J: It’s definitely more than a few people. They mobilise friends and connections. I hope most people believe in forgiveness, redemption, and second chances.
M: Let’s talk mob mentality.
J: It can spread like wildfire. They have a way of stoking anger in each other which becomes a vicious cycle of self-perpetuating hatred. If the aim is to make the world a better place, I don’t know if hatred is the best solution especially in the long-term.
M: A waiter gives a customer bad service. They could complain to the manager or demand the waiter be fired.
J: I wouldn’t prescribe what anyone should do nor make a moral judgement. But personally, I’ve done neither. I don’t know what their day was like, no one knows what happened leading up to it.
I hope the customer’s primary motivation to complain is for the waiter to learn. If the waiter is known to be polite, I hope they would try and figure out what lies below the surface.
M: When does a community become too exclusive?
J: When it becomes closed to the idea it could be wrong. When you believe you’re absolutely right with no margin for error, that — to me — is a definite cause for concern.
M: “You’re not me, you’ll never understand, so there’s no point even trying.”
J: A philosopher once said: You’ll never know if your idea of happiness is the same as mine, but what we can observe is that it’s similar enough for us to have meaningful discourse.
M: Why do misunderstandings happen?
J: Maybe we’ve been hurt before and certain situations bring that past hurt to mind. It’s easier to make assumptions about things we don’t know than to live in uncertainty. It’s easier to be cynical than to open ourselves to the possibility of being hurt again.
Last thoughts
M: Has this incident made you more considerate?
J: I would definitely think much more than twice before speaking up about anything else. Maybe that’s not a bad thing.
I’ve always wanted to draw commonality through my art. I paint Singaporean scenes, but I use vagueness and ambiguity to disguise the actual locations. It could be Bedok or Bishan or Bras Basah but that’s not important because it’s all Singapore.
M: Are you more hopeful than before?
J: It’s good to hope.
